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surrealist
06-14-2007, 03:27 PM
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25781
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<div class="bbcode_quote_body">FIFA producer Tim Tschirner has said that he believes the Nintendo Wii matches up to the first Xbox in terms of power.



"It's about as powerful as the original Xbox," he said. "The video hardware unfortunately is not as powerful. There's just a couple of key things that you can do on Xbox like shaders which you just cannot do on the Wii... Overall though it's pretty much what the original Xbox was."</div>
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They need to lower the price with these statements..

Revan654
06-14-2007, 04:25 PM
Re: 'Wii is as powerful as original Xbox' says FIFA producer



Didn't they already prove that Wii is a bit more powerful than a XBox?

xenos
06-14-2007, 05:16 PM
Re: 'Wii is as powerful as original Xbox' says FIFA producer


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<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Revan654;81241 wrote:</div>
<div class="bbcode_quote_body">Didn't they already prove that Wii is a bit more powerful than a XBox?</div>
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i have to see how they have proven that one. it will have an edge in performance because of the added RAM and slightly faster CPU, but the GPU is still not in the same league as the nvidia card in the xbox.



i figured that one out a long time ago when they revealed that the architecture of the Wii's GPU was still a fixed T&amp;L set up instead of moving over to fully featured pixel and vertex shader units, i thought you would figure the same.

Raz
06-14-2007, 05:41 PM
Re: 'Wii is as powerful as original Xbox' says FIFA producer


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<div class="bbcode_quote_head">xenos;81250 wrote:</div>
<div class="bbcode_quote_body">i figured that one out a long time ago when they revealed that the architecture of the Wii's GPU was still a fixed T&amp;L set up instead of moving over to fully featured pixel and vertex shader units, i thought you would figure the same.</div>
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Hmph. I didn't know that. That is bad. :snooty:

cmptrnrd16
06-14-2007, 05:44 PM
Re: 'Wii is as powerful as original Xbox' says FIFA producer



Of the games I have seen on Wii, Zelda looks decent, and the rest look like crap. If they can release something that even scraps the surface of how good Riddick looked on the xbox than I will shut up, but honestly cartoony textureless games are hard to look at after awhile. After playing games in high resolution with HDR and lots of pretty textures it is hard to take the wii seriously.

Revan654
06-14-2007, 05:58 PM
Re: 'Wii is as powerful as original Xbox' says FIFA producer



5 Months and counting Since I turned my Wii on. Problem with Nintendo is Wii is mainly a 1st party gaming console. All 3rd party crap are ports, which looks like crap. Wii is out selling both 360 &amp; Ps3 4:1 or something like that. Yet they have not much exclusive 3rd party support. Game is done on the 360/Ps3 than ported to the Wii. Theirs a few titles like Rayman. Hopefully some good titles will be announced soon. Once all the major titles are out than what? Another 3 years of crap, until we get another Zelda or Mario? We don't need another gamecube cycle.

xenos
06-14-2007, 06:38 PM
Re: 'Wii is as powerful as original Xbox' says FIFA producer



give developers time guys, many 3rd party companies were caught off gaurd with the Wii's success. a lot of what we have seen was obviously rushed to take advantage of the Wii's current popularity. not only that but it is a huge challenge for developers to think outside the box, but they are learning.



give them time, i think we'll see some great things out of the Wii



More info on the Wii's GPU:




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<div class="bbcode_quote_body">Geek Out: Xbox Uber-Boss Robbie Bach Takes a Shot At Nintendo's 'Underpowered' Wii. Does He Manage to Score a Bulls-Eye, or Is He Just Shooting Blanks?

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:37 PM By N'Gai Croal



As our most loyal readers know, the staff here at Level Up will from time to time scrutinize the statements of videogame executives to determine their veracity. So when Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices division, disparaged the technical capabilities of Nintendo's flying-off-store-shelves Wii, we knew that our services would be required. eWeek asked Bach "So, is Nintendo disrupting things for you, or were you surprised to see them?" to which he replied:



I'm actually not--the product has gotten more broad-base [sic] aclaim that I would have expected. It's a very nice product, but it actually has a relatively specific audience and a fairly specific appeal, frankly, based on one feature, which is the controller itself. And the rest of the product is actually not a great product--no disrespect, but...the video graphics on it aren't very strong; the box itself is kind of underpowered; it doesn't play DVDs; there are a lot of down-line components [that] aren't actually that interesting.



Just in case that statement wasn't enough of a hit on the Wii, Bach quickly circles back around for the fatality:



The challenge they have is that third parties aren't going to make much money on this platform because Nintendo is going to make all that money, and their ability to compete with something like a Halo or produce an experience like Madden on their system is going to be tough. They don't have the graphics horsepower that even Xbox 1 had. So it makes sort of the comparison set a little bit difficult.



Those are the kind of statements that reliably set fanboys' tongues a-wagging. But how accurate are they? Back in February, we observed posters on various message boards speculating about how much power the Wii had under the hood. Nintendo, for its part, has steadfastly refused to release the Wii's technical specifications. So we approached two of our most reliable technical experts at third party publishers--both of whom spoke under the condition that they not be identified for fear of angering Nintendo--for an independent evaluation of the Wii's abilities.



One point of speculation was this: does the Wii have programmable shaders, either vertex shaders, pixel shaders, or both, as did the original Xbox? The answer, according to our first source, was no. "The Wii's GPU has fixed functions for vertex, lighting, and pixel operations," said the source "All 'programmable shaders' means is that the code you write for the shader gets run on the vertex and pixel hardware of the GPU. This is how it works on the high-end ATI and Nvidia GPU parts. The Wii is an older fixed function design where you have lots of operations but the pipelines are not programmable in the sense of downloading shader code to run [on them]."



Our second source echoed that assessment of the Wii's graphics chip, comparing its fixed-function design to that the Gamecube, saying that it was "basically pretty similar" to Nvidia's seven-year-old GeForce2. "A dev support guy from Nintendo said that the Wii chipset is 'Gamecube 1.5 with some added memory,'" our second source told us. "I figure if they say that, it must be true."



Our second source went on to explain that the "Gamecube 1.5" moniker, while accurate, doesn't mean that gamers won't see graphical improvements on the Wii. "There are three main differences which will result in graphics improvements. One, the increased memory clock speed, from 162 megahertz to 243 megahertz, means that it is easier to do enough pixels for 480p mode versus 480i. Two, the enhanced memory size of the Wii gives much more room for image-related operations such as anti-aliasing, motion blur, etc. The performance to these memory systems from the graphics chip is also improved. So full-screen effects and increased texture usage seem likely as a result."



The same source cited a third factor: an apparent increase in fixed-function "texture environment stages"--also known as TEV stages--from 8 in the Gamecube to 16 on the Wii. (The source stressed "apparent" because this feature wasn't described in the Wii's graphics overview documentation--which was simply repurposed from the Gamecube--but it was listed among the Wii's programming calls. "Assuming this isn't a bug, it means that much more complex per-pixel graphics operations are possible," our source told us. "However, each additional TEV stage use slows down the graphics chip more and more, so it is a trade-off. You can do more powerful pixel operations and you'll bottleneck the chip and not be able to do as many of them, nor as many vertex operations (since the pixel and vertex systems are tightly coupled on fixed-function graphics chips.) Eight additional stages mean more complex operations are possible. It would be easier to do bump mapping perhaps, or environment mapping, but you would have to get creative with how you do it. It wouldn't be easy.



That assessment dovetailed with what we heard from our first source. "Almost all the shader effects on PC, Xbox 360 and PS3 can be reproduced on the Wii by re-implementing them with the fixed function hardware of the Wii's GPU. Most games just port the effect over. A few teams have gone as far as making a shader-to-Wii conversion tool. It reads the shader code and generates the fixed function code necessary to achieve the same result. Keep in mind that the Wii's GPU is not as fast or feature rich as the Xbox 360 or PS3, but that doesn't mean you can't get very close results."



Why, by the way, did Nintendo opt for a fixed-function graphics chip instead of a programmable GPU, like the PS3 or Xbox 360? "It's all about cost," our first source told us. "Fixed function circuitry is a lot cheaper to make." Those cost savings have not only resulted in a console that is cheaper than its competitors, but also much more profitable for Nintendo. And we know full well how much Nintendo loves its profits.



Our final verdict on the charges leveled at the Wii? While Bach's statement that the Wii is graphically underpowered compared to the first Xbox wasn't quite a bulls-eye, it's so darned close to the mark--technically speaking--that we've got to compliment him on his aim. The question, then, is how much will developers be able to squeeze out of the less-flexible Wii hardware? But if the Wii keeps selling like ice on a hot summer day, it's unlikely that Nintendo will lose too much sleep over the power disparity.</div>
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http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/05/08/geek-out-xbox-uber-boss-robbie-bach-takes-a-shot-at-nintendo-s-underpowered-wii-does-he-manage-to-score-a-bulls-eye-or-just-shoot-himself-in-the-foot.aspx